Rudder cables.

Design , Outfitting , Skegs , Rudders, Pumps , Sails , Modifications
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TIMAX
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Rudder cables.

Postby TIMAX » Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:27 pm

So I replaced my rudder cables a while ago with SPECTRA cord. Very stiff , very strong etc BUT the edge of my seat was just touching the cable and this was enough to wear through the outer casing of the cord. :( So I went to Sydney Rigging in Rozelle http://www.rigging.com.au/rope.htm for some new spectra. The guy there was great and took me out the back to have a look. When I told him what it was for he said to forget spectra as it chafes . :roll: He showed me some ropes he was working on for racing yachts using a 100% dyneema woven cover to prevent wear around blocks . The cord used would be the ultimate rudder cables. :mrgreen: Unaffected by salt , good UV resistance , etc. You can read up here if you want. http://www.dsm.com/en_US/html/hpf/ropes.htm Good stuff and not expensive.

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Mark Sundin
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Re: Rudder cables.

Postby Mark Sundin » Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:49 am

....or, dispense with the rudder entirely & rid yourself of this unnecessary complication.....!

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gnarlydog
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Re: Rudder cables.

Postby gnarlydog » Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:31 pm

I second Mark Sundin re rudderless kayak however I have replaced stainless steel lines on ruddered kayaks before with Dyneema sheet (2mm) with great sucess.
Spectra line sold at Big W :-) has a mantle (outside) that is way too coarse and stiff.

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GAZ01
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Re: Rudder cables.

Postby GAZ01 » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:38 pm

SAVE THE WEIGHT, I SAY GO RUDDERLESS....AT 20 PLUS KNOTS WHEN YOU MIGHT NEED YOUR RUDDER IT'S LIKELY TO BREAK...LEARN THE PADDLE YOUR BOAT WITH RUDDER UP AND YOU WILL NEED IT LESS AND LESS TO ONE DAY YOU WILL SAY WHY IS THAT THING ON THE BACK OF MY KAYAK . REGARDS GARY SUNSHINE COAST
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http://www.queenslandseakayakinstruction.com.au

gages
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Re: Rudder cables.

Postby gages » Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:59 am

My thoughts are as everyone is saying learn to handle your boat in strong winds without a rudder or a skeg

Some boats handle awesomely without either but generally a boat with a skeg is orientated to weathercock(some are- I have seen some shockers lately that had a skeg as standard) and hence the skeg is needed to counter this effect,that is OK if it is an onshore wind terrible if its a offshore wind and as the weather gets worse the more you need more skeg in the water making it harder to correct your course and as far as everyone mentioning rudder's breaking there is probably more chance of your skeg cable kinked or the actual blade jammed than a rudder cable breaking
I have had a skeg in a boat for the last 7 years and have found them prone to problems to say the least with sand and small pebbles being the worse problem and once when someone else used my boat -- they kinked the cable :evil: but I do love the simplicity that it brings


Rudders can suffer the same problem ,damaged in surf or broken rudder cable just when you need it and generally (as stated) we can rely on our rudders way too much but in good condition and working well, as they should with a good check before paddling, can make those big winds and seas a little more bearable especially if you want those looong runs on waves
You only have to look at the surf ski guys who surf from one wave then the next and then the next using their rudders to their advantage ,that is probably the reason Paul Caffyns daily Kilometers increased after putting one on his round Australia paddle

BUT

learning to handle those big'uns without relying on a skeg or rudder to keep you straight can be awesome, hard work at times when its howling but you do get a better feel for the ocean without any aids
Go rudderless and skeg' less I say and really learn to use the boat

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Bill
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Re: Rudder cables.

Postby Bill » Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:59 pm

All this is fine IF your boat is designed to work without a rudder of skeg. Some boats are designed that they are meant to use the skeg/rudder. I have never had a problem with the rudders on either my wifes Prijon/seayak or my Perception/ecobezhig. (3 years) The cables are reliable and I replace the lines every 2 years whether they need it or not. Some classic boats are designed to go without either, and the skeg/rudder is added as an extra. If you own one of these boats then its your choice and the boat should be able to do everything without the add ons. If however the boat is desgined to have a skeg/rudder then thats what you use.

Cheers

Bill
Cheers

Bill

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TIMAX
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Re: Rudder cables.

Postby TIMAX » Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:22 pm

Bill wrote:The cables are reliable and I replace the lines every 2 years whether they need it or not. If however the boat is desgined to have a skeg/rudder then thats what you use.

Cheers

Bill

Yep , I agree My first post here was not weather or not you should have a rudder it was aimed at people who do and want to , or are replacing the cables. When I first got my mirage it had steel cables . I had no problems but I did paddle with a guy who did during a paddle and heard about another so I replaced them with what at the time was thought of as being the best . Spectra. Then I had a problem and found a better alternative. The Dynema. I was just passing on some info, that is if your replacing cables then have a look at the dynema. ;)

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Re: Rudder cables.

Postby gages » Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:54 pm

Rudders/skegs --OR NOTHING-- learn to use your boat without them as well

Having led a trip only two weeks ago with 6 NSWSKC members and on the way down to our destination one of the boats broke a rudder cable which left the rudder stuck to one side and the only way we could improve it was to pull the pin and let it hang
BUT the paddler couldn't/didn't know how to handle her boat without the rudder -literally and we had to set up a tow to keep the paddler in a straight line

I was once caught in a 50/60 knot off shore wind that had my rudder ed boat ( a seaquest -not a Nadgee :roll: ) flapping around helplessly and it was only my skill level that enabled me to get back to shore and another time in the middle of SW Tasmania my skeg was stuffed (again not a Nadgee :lol: ) and I had to deal with my boat without any aids in BIG seas and STRONG winds

The moral of the story --learn to use your boat without aids --just maybe one day you might have to know how to cope with it regardless of your boats skeg/rudder --which as mentioned with regular maintenance shouldn't be a problem

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TIMAX
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Re: Rudder cables.

Postby TIMAX » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:02 pm

gages wrote:Rudders/skegs -

Having led a trip only two weeks ago with 6 NSWSKC members and on the way down to our destination one of the boats broke a rudder cable which left the rudder stuck to one side and the only way we could improve it was to pull the pin and let it hang

Hey Gages , was that a steel cable and where did it break do you know?
Tim

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HYBRID Pty Ltd
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Re: Rudder cables.

Postby HYBRID Pty Ltd » Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:09 am

Ahoy TIMAX,

...while you at the rudder cables,concider to cross them over :idea:
Most manufactures have the cable 'strait' (right foot = boat turning right) which does not help controling of the boat in 'big' following sea/surf zone.

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Re: Rudder cables.

Postby gages » Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:56 am

Steel cable and it broke at the swaging and was only three months old --


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