Hard chine Vs soft?

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Camanche73
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Hard chine Vs soft?

Postby Camanche73 » Sun May 28, 2017 8:33 pm

Just wondering what people out there prefer to paddle and why. What sort of Chined boat do you use and what sort of paddling conditions do you find it is most suitable for?

Boatsie
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Re: Hard chine Vs soft?

Postby Boatsie » Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:55 pm

Hi Comanche, I'm not that great a kayaker yet I was a pretty balanced single skuller and enjoyed years of wave skiing. (Hopeless on a surf ski though, lol go figure)
I'm investing in a soft chine ruddered yak soon mearly for clarity of high flow glide type predominantly flat water use. I love surfing and I really fail without edge to carve face with.
The wave ski was soft chine yet radius tight enough to grab with. I wonder too if hard chines are like balancing a sturdy sea horse with banana like symmetrical keel lines. I'd love to know too, does broadside current catch that edge with more efficiency than a rounded hull?
Fun being lost

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Re: Hard chine Vs soft?

Postby Boatsie » Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:38 pm

My apologies Comanche, I lied. Wave ski was so hard chined her lines were inverted. She was bairly buoyant plane little girl with an edge that could spell alphabets.
I lost her to the attic because her nose kept breaking on the hard wet sand while learning reo's on sucked dry steep waves. I would love another hard chine kayak with skeg less nimble than above and long enough to make passage with sail. Advantages I see are no need for rudder pedals. Disadvantages I can't see many because I don't mind being tail end Charlie when glass.
None the less, next boat I seek is relatively soft chine to reduce wet area and learn how to surf with much less definition of our alphabets we draw. (Reality is I dream of gliding at 30 rpm and getting home if mum roars)

Paddle Dog 52
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Re: Hard chine Vs soft?

Postby Paddle Dog 52 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:55 am

Soft chined Current Designs hulls. Feel waves less on sides and faster.

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Re: Hard chine Vs soft?

Postby Boatsie » Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:07 am

A displacement hull displaces water such that the vessel may pass through the created gap.  The heavier the vessel;  more water is needed to move out of the way.  Basic hull speed may be seen as an expedentual function yet again with basics;  four times the length of Hull equates to four times the achievable generated wave length which equates to twice the Hull speed.
OK..  So if waterline measure is 5.5 metres, generated bow wave will be near 5.5 metres long and displacement speed should be a tad above 5 knots.. 5.2 5.3 somewhere near there.
So why make bow buoyant?
As bow wave gets taller/ fuller / more mass,  the absence of water in your path becomes apparent as your bow goes under.  Hull speed is not Max speed yet those extra knots are not so appealing. Extra wet area and required torso torque might if to maintain such knots are of much more effort than good ol' down under.
As many kayaks are semi displacement hulls with rocker to assist dynamics (water flow) such that their plain plane may play,  along their channels is where our knots are flowing.  Due to my ignorance of broadside and quartering seas,  I really like hard chines because when running their more definite channels grasp face without need of skeg nor rudder.  (Totally dependent upon design of course).

Anyway.. While bored..  Kayaking dates back beyond 20000 years and plenty of old man technical will keep our bodies adjusting with our water.  A tapered edge was designed a long long time before man discovered boat.
Ideally,  like displacement;  a wall leads to break water while an edge shows her track.  Water is our friend,  water taught man before man hollowed tree.  A tear drop.
The ability of displaced water to race back to where it was via a jet stream, (besides less skeg box turbulence when skeg up, lol)


;)

Mac50L
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Re: Hard chine Vs soft?

Postby Mac50L » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:07 pm

Camanche73 wrote:Just wondering what people out there prefer to paddle and why. What sort of Chined boat do you use and what sort of paddling conditions do you find it is most suitable for?

The two I presently paddle, one hard chine and the other absolutely no chine. The first is more relaxing though at 510 cm beam it still needs skill. The other, though a little beamier is OK loaded but when empty definitely a good kayak for up-skilling as you need to be able to instinctively brace. Brace without realising you are doing it.

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NorthSIKer
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Re: Hard chine Vs soft?

Postby NorthSIKer » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:07 am

Mac50L wrote:The two I presently paddle, one hard chine and the other absolutely no chine. The first is more relaxing though at 510 cm beam it still needs skill. The other, though a little beamier is OK loaded but when empty definitely a good kayak for up-skilling as you need to be able to instinctively brace. Brace without realising you are doing it.


My second boat is hard chine and similar to above I find it gives more distinct feedback on the point of secondary stability. Though I haven't paddled this boat anywhere near enough to know whether I prefer a hard or soft chine. To some degree - over time you adapt to the boat you paddle I believe.

Daytripper
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Re: Hard chine Vs soft?

Postby Daytripper » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:53 am

I've owned hard-chine and soft/no chine kayaks. My current boat is an Epic 16X, without a trace of chine or keel line. For me, the biggest difference is in the amount of leeway made versus overall boat speed/efficiency. My hard-chine kayak was great in beam seas and beam winds, and would hold a course while my buddy in his Nordkapp was being blown sideways. But the hard-chine boat was slower and was a bear to paddle into strong headwinds. The 16X is the exact opposite: makes a lot of leeway in a beam wind, but paddles very efficiently--it is very fast and is especially good paddling into strong headwinds that would exhaust me in my hard-chine boat and exhausted another partner in his hard-chine Arctic Hawk or CD Caribou. Either type boat is good in difficult seas once you get used to their ways, but for me, I'll never go back to a hard-chine boat. The long waterline of Epic boats also contributes to their efficiency-- the famous Epic "glide" is a wonderful thing to experience :D .

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Re: Hard chine Vs soft?

Postby Boatsie » Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:16 pm

Scored this from my mate; a son of a champion. Obviously he has Yank friends (thanks back band lol).
I like her soft chines because they look to progressively tighten toward a stronger aft edge. I have only paddled flat water hence I go on like an idiot. When leaks repaired she'll be running the outer storm swells. I was using Otiums in storm surf but this girl has a much nicer plane with an aft point to kick. On order is a Nadgee Wanderer which looks much similar; great build quality but a thinner stretched limo type. I'll be using her to run with the runners on most day outs but fairly certain that days with tow boat will be using the short girl above.
I like the way displaced water returns and by sharper chines aft I'm pretty sure the designer of the above vessel was able to aid forward propulsion using basic displacement theory in a practical sense.
She's really beautiful, my mate laughs at me because he knows better than I that she loves white water. She tracks beautifully too
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Boatsie
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Re: Hard chine Vs soft?

Postby Boatsie » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:27 pm

If interested.. Built 1961 +/- a year. Treated like a girl for 40 ish years. Treated like a non competitive old lady for 14 ish years. Is currently solid like rock although daylight shines bildge. Champion in his 80s (a friend of mates old man). Very nice lines just not as distance covering as a fast tourer. My abilities not much, she teaches knot much.

Boatsie
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Re: Hard chine Vs soft?

Postby Boatsie » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:57 pm

Anyway, as ignorant of practical, I'm a fan of Taran. Whomever designed her looks to have key on hydraulic stabilizers; they be the weird chine.


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