Storm gp

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Boatsie
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Re: Storm gp

Postby Boatsie » Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:38 pm

I'm being a dumb aft. Lol. Pine was used for something else. Less than grip width anyhow. Can't figure why it wouldn't be easier to carve foam then save for some carbon fibre or hybrid cloth. Sure that if Eskimos had epoxy they'd have danced a jig with celebration of a lifetime length kayak maneuver. My hands get frozen down here (at ocean end) of Mediterranean similar latitudes, short stick has hands doing something, upper grip is superior hence force application far from fulcrum looks like a strong braced water hold. Would have been nice to know of a storm GP years ago.
Hunting lumber yard tomorrow, Eskimos would have danced a jig for a milling machine too I suppose. I'm an admirer. Nice paddle design old man.
I keep eyeing off my old tree, she up to about 4 metre knotless runs, leaning leeward like a curse and supporting about 30 tonne far thick run on leeward side. Her leeward branch looks good enough for 20 knotless paddles, 10 storm, 10 lengthened. Illegal to chop her down although she might be accelerating to leeward at a few mm per annum and already above power lines. But aye, I'm just an old fool that knows nothing. I've mentioned that to council, they no best; non stop excuses while still here. Lol

Mac50L
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Re: Storm gp

Postby Mac50L » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:59 am

Boatsie wrote: short stick has hands doing something, upper grip is superior hence force application far from fulcrum looks like a strong braced water hold.

Hand spacing is the same, hand distance to centre of force, hand spacing between hands, GP or any other paddle so where is this fulcrum "thing"? It is blade shape that makes the difference between a GP and a Euro.

Boatsie
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Re: Storm gp

Postby Boatsie » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:42 am

I'm just fishing for info via idiotism Mac.
Figured that fulcrum being pivot point of water grasp and if short enough far lever could be palm push fingers up instead of sideways. Get that 10% of arms into the equation then. I know most drive is legs, pushing left leg diolates left energy channel hence torques paddlers body leftwards. ;)
Slept in. Had eyed off a thin Pine plank yesterday at Bunnings. Was concerned about width but YouTube said most of us beginners try to go to wide. Will try go tomorrow with a saw. Figured cutting at length knuckles to knuckles and using remainer as long loom GP. Can't see much wrong with that. $10 wood, $10 Linseed oil. = 2 quality paddles at $10 each plus a slap me aft end off cut. :lol:
Hanging to get wet, will know in 3 months whether I can get a better tension with over hand. Who knows? Might need side grasp to flick release blade hence a paddle for a kid instead of me. Can always build another. 100% recycle if lost as driftwood into ocean compost

Boatsie
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Re: Storm gp

Postby Boatsie » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:02 pm

Wide being blade width. Aye brother, they look beautiful with depth blades below distorted distributions of air and water. I'm absent of know with GP yet figure is very short too short argh, most me mates shorter anyhow and children same.
Just when you play with your friends they tend to push off fingers up, push ups the same. Seems logically freezable to push easier fingers up and hence looks more comfortably strong doing so at leverage length end.
Like earlier, just fishing for information, won't be wet a while and $10 paddles are very appealing. Pained old mate out last night, too much laughing, he'll recover and he's looking forward to a shorter, wider, more stable yet quicker, lighter, big cockpit 'yak to be towed with. Lol.
I appreciate the help I received. Thank you much.
Hope that read sense.

Mac50L
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Re: Storm gp

Postby Mac50L » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:39 pm

Most of what Boatsie has written I can't understand as I only speak English.

I have no idea why a Storm paddle would be wanted for general paddling as they are only an emergency paddle or if you insist on hunting seals. Most of our seals (pups) will come on deck for a chat so no need to sneak up on them.

The blade width of a GP is the width you can grasp, comfortably. The loom is hands against hips, step each hand out one hand width. The loom is then what the first finger and thumb (each hand) grasp. The rest of the fingers are on the shoulder and blade.

I use rectangular looms because bending the second joint (from the tip) of the fingers makes a right angle and therefore a good grasp of the paddle.

The push is done with the base of the fingers against the loom/blade flat area. Thumbs are there to stop the paddle falling on the deck.

The dimensions I give on my website and are a good start point. Start there, find out if the next paddle needs to be changed but do the first one with those dimensions.

Because the blade is a hand's grasp wide, a sweep stroke (right out to grasping near the tip) is easy and natural, unlike a Euro paddle. Also for rolling if you want as much leverage as possible, the GP gives it to you.

The other thing about wide short kayaks and speed, they are slower. Long and skinny is fast.

Boatsie
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Re: Storm gp

Postby Boatsie » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:15 pm

.
The other thing about wide short kayaks and speed, they are slower. Long and skinny is fast.


I tend to agree 90%+ of boats. Just the short boat we have might not have the wavelength but it's of much more thought during design and manipulation of pressure than the longer skinnier boat my mate uses.

Thanks for the idea of squaring the loom, would also add shaft strength.

Boatsie
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Re: Storm gp

Postby Boatsie » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:49 pm

Mac50L wrote:
I have no idea why a Storm paddle would be wanted for general paddling ...


They look brilliant brother. When very cold, upper can be held easier.. Up wind less windage. Can be powered like a canoe oar and lots thrown into her. Not to high air when a rudder.
Down side is skill reliance. Skill fun to learn though and when needed be nice being comfortable with that.

I think I'm in love my brother. Now just need build 1

Mac50L
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Re: Storm gp

Postby Mac50L » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:11 am

Boatsie wrote: "I have no idea why a Storm paddle would be wanted for general paddling ..."

They look brilliant brother.

Look just like a short loom GP.
When very cold, upper can be held easier..

No. Wrong. The hands are just as far apart and all the extra windage/cooling when moving the hands from centre to wet blade.
Up wind less windage.

Only if the wind is directly ahead. How much paddling time is it there?
Can be powered like a canoe oar .... lots thrown into her.

Are we kayaking or canoeing? She doesn't care and she paddles her own kayak.
Not to (too) high air when a rudder.

Not as much leverage as a full sized GP and no higher.
Down side is skill reliance. Skill fun to learn though and when needed be nice being comfortable with that.

But you don't know how to use a full sized GP without the extra action of hand sliding.
I think I'm in love my brother.

But you don't know what with.

Boatsie
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Re: Storm gp

Postby Boatsie » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:08 am

I believe you, was thinking nice short stick easy to throw around, been dry near 2 years. On the waves running along it is fun to throw body over and paddle thrown further to steer face with. A storm gp wouldn't have that outreach buoyancy. Yet aye, short piece of wood easier to find than a long piece of wood. Need to learn 1 anyhow and I like canoe oars with kayaks, just sux switching sides.
I don't read wood well, off to Mitre10/bunnings to hopefully score a knotless run of Pine.
Looking forward to an over hand grab paddle with a short loom.

Mac50L
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Re: Storm gp

Postby Mac50L » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:58 am

Boatsie wrote:was thinking nice short stick easy to throw around, been dry near 2 years.

Are we kayaking or doing press-ups and things like that?
A storm gp wouldn't have that outreach buoyancy.

That's right.
short piece of wood easier to find than a long piece of wood.

NO.
I don't read wood well,

Yes, you are right there.
off to Mitre10/Bunnings

Why?

Bone Timber Industries - WRC
http://bonetimber.com.au/nbonetimber/in ... 71dd8-08fd

Ridgewood Timber
http://www.ridgewoodtimber.com/imported/

Mac50L
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Re: Storm gp

Postby Mac50L » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:59 am

Another supplier, (this website is too fussy about number of links allowed).

Timco
http://www.timcotimber.com.au/timber-su ... red-cedar/

Boatsie
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Re: Storm gp

Postby Boatsie » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:13 pm

Too late. $12.50 at 3.6 m length. Had to cut to get into car, looks like about nominal length for standard gp now.
Will shape this soon at about 1 fist loom though. Guessing using offcuts for hand paddles with forearm brace straps to use on a duck. Eg lay on pontoon and emergency paddle.
I like timber co too. I get my doors there usually.
Thanks Mac, hope to paddle with u 1 day, Nathan

Mac50L
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Re: Storm gp

Postby Mac50L » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:00 pm

Boatsie wrote:Too late. $12.50 at 3.6 m length.

Cheaper than here if that's WRC.

If you got a ~20 mm plank, note the way I get the thickness. Note that cutting the shape out and splitting the offcuts to make up the thicknessers can all be done with a hand saw.

hope to paddle with u 1 day, Nathan

Last in Adelaide 2 years ago after Coober Pedy and Kangaroo Island trips. Drove Adelaide to Melbourne after that. Any paddling over there is usually a 3 hour drive east of Melbourne, canals and lake.

Boatsie
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Re: Storm gp

Postby Boatsie » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:51 pm

Thank you much Mac and others, I really appreciate reading too gather information.
I'm going off track with this paddle though, noting I will build a normal storm gp some day.
This build is now a short stick long blade forward efficient attempt. No 4th dimensional flow charting. No C. A. T. (Calculas, algebra, trigonometry). No C. A. D. (Computer aided disease; less need of think) .
Just a plain and silly 5cm end flat/handle, 85 cm scope a poop, 15cm loom, 85 cm scope a poop, 5 cm end flat/handle. If it doesn't hydro lock nicely I'll have built me a long arm extension crisps and nuts bowl set. If it does paddle nice I'll be even happier aye :P
Plank used was 35 or 45 by 90.

mattsema4
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Re: Storm gp

Postby mattsema4 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:30 am

Nathan,

I think you may well build a "long arm extension crisps and nut bowl set".

The dimensions dont sound right to me. Too short in length and loom. Too narrrow in blade (5cm?).

For your height a paddle length of 220-230 cm would seem about right. As Mac has described loom length would need to hip width plus fist width. There are a number of ways of determining ideal loom length. 15cm is way too short. As Mac has described the hand should sit comfortably on the shoulder of the blade. What you are describing doesnt sound natural. You will be paddling with a plank of wood. It wont work well.

Falling "in love" with the concept of a storm GP doesnt make sense or "the look". A GP is a tool that must be fit to do its job well. The appearance didnt rate for natives that used these sticks. Their lives depended on them to perform a job ie to get to hunt efficiently and get the home again safely.

There is a load of information on building a GP on the net and Youtube.

Matt

Mac50L
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Re: Storm gp

Postby Mac50L » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:54 am

Listen to Matt even if you don't listen to me.

My lengths are -

Blade 800 mm long, shoulder 30 mm long, loom 490 mm long, shoulder 30 mm long, blade 800 mm long. Note tips and about 30 mm added to the paddle length each end.

The widths are -

End of blade 85 mm wide, end of blade/start of shoulder 40 mm, loom 32-34 mm (height 34 mm), narrow end of blade 40 mm, other end of paddle 85 mm wide.

Note the way I get the thickness needed from a 19-20 mm thick plank.

Don't "stuff round" with maths and hydrodynamics, make it properly and use it properly - as per what Matt says -

Matt - "The appearance didn't rate for natives that used these sticks. Their lives depended on them to perform a job i.e. to get to hunt efficiently and get the home again safely."

Boatsie
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Re: Storm gp

Postby Boatsie » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:10 am

With ya Matt, Mac.
Width 90cm.
Started as material option for short gp.
5cm at end is palm push. I am describing wrongly maybe.
Can work on a normal paddle later.
Just scoping it out a little bit to assist pressure, might weaken it but can take it easy when done and if balling pressure correctly can plug and mold it then push the water hard with modern material. Basically an upside down long blade canoe oar reversible. We had to paddle from a 3 foot gunnel or wait for the wind. No rush here bloke. Just a different stroke.

If doesn't work doesn't matter. It's a bit of a tree rubbed with a bit of tree juice. Great compost when broken :lol:

Boatsie
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Re: Storm gp

Postby Boatsie » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:20 am

I haven't pictures to post. Hoping they be spring time. Spring season remembers oceans momentum routing up gulf with arvo breeze blowing near same way. Old euro fly swat still my favourite stick.

Camanche73
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Re: Storm gp

Postby Camanche73 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:29 am

Sounds like you are building a canoe paddle. Great if you enjoy the 'J' stroke and lots of draw strokes. (Saracsim)

Boatsie
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Re: Storm gp

Postby Boatsie » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:41 pm

You have me Comanche. J stroke?
Brief read was steering stroke?
Just a double ended paddle that has scooped faces with overhand bracing. Yeah, in wind cocking a canoe ease of paddling though.
Just playing around as have time to do so.
Figured shallow radius catch into sharper radius (vertical radiis) to use element law, eg easy path. Displaced water will want to surface hence ball energy toward loom and redirect per propulsion requirements.
Shallow radius catch should be flat enough for palm grasp and lighter at ends.
If it doesn't work doesn't matter, mates in brain surgery recovery so something non smelly to do while doing nothing. Lol.
Here's the paddle. Lol
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