Flame-less cooking

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gnarlydog
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Flame-less cooking

Postby gnarlydog » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:17 am

I understand that some paddlers really enjoy those dehydrated pouches of food that just need water and heat to prepare a "delicious" meal.
Most times I see little canister stoves used for the heating of water to then simply pour into the pouch.
Well, there is now apparently a simpler way still: no stove.
I am not talking about the "self heating meals"; one can still have his/her favorite brand/flavour but can leave the stove behind.
I have not tried it (I am old school: stove, pots, refried beans and all) but I am sure some paddlers will be very excited about this trick: http://flamelesscook.com/

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JohnA
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Re: Flame-less cooking

Postby JohnA » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:50 pm

Nice design, good looking insulated cook box, I'd buy one but I wouldn't buy there refills.

These guys want ten pounds sterling for the heat packs, that's bloody expensive for a wee bag of ground iron and magnesium!

Sourcing heat packs from MREs would be a fraction of the price. Even if you had to use a couple for equivalent heat output you'd be far cheaper.

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Mark Sundin
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Re: Flame-less cooking

Postby Mark Sundin » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:19 pm

John, tell me you dont drink wee bags…?

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Megan
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Re: Flame-less cooking

Postby Megan » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:15 pm

They would be a good idea for total fire ban trips if you cannot face cold sandwiches for dinner.

Yeah, but I don't like the cost per trip, especially with my income at the moment. At sea level in a temperature climate the good old metho stove is a winner for me for general touring including day tours due to being cheap, quiet and simple to run. In total fire ban sandwiches will do.

Cheers
Megan

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Jmuzz
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Re: Flame-less cooking

Postby Jmuzz » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:05 pm

JohnA wrote:These guys want ten pounds sterling for the heat packs,


Thats for a pack of 7, so about $2.15 to warm 360ml of soup or water. (without adding shipping/Australia tax)

Which isnt that bad, $2 to have hot soup/dehydrated for dinner without carrying a stove.
Whats an extra $2 on an $8 dehy packet?

Especially useful in the snow, good luck using a jetboil inside a tent :o

bag of ground iron and magnesium!


I tried to work out what it is based on joules for 20g pack, but cant find good enough figgures on the energy in the materials.
Its something with 4900 joules per gram, based on their claim of 360g of water raised from approx 25c to 90c from a 20g pack plus water. (And my maths)

Some reviews claim its quicklime, but what I can find on quicklime (unreliable) would need 4 packets.

Couldnt find any MSDS on them.

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JohnA
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Re: Flame-less cooking

Postby JohnA » Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:29 pm

Hi JMuzz,

Yes, quicklime would do it too.

I was thinking along the lines of the heat packs that the divers sometimes used to use in Antarctic waters. Similar chemistry to thermite but moderated by sea water.

I missed the "pack of 7" bit. It still seams expensive to me.

Quicklime is made by heating limestone in a big kiln. Being a natural material it has quite a variable chemical composition. The amount of heat and the rate of reaction depend quite heavily on the grind size and quality of the lime, even the kiln temperature it was roasted at. Because it's so variable that may be why you're having trouble finding references. In theory it could be around 60kJ/mole but in the real world it's likely to be quite a bit lower than this. If it was pure calcium oxide then there would be 0.35 mole/20g pack and you would be looking at an increase of around 270Cº. I would expect in the real world 150-200ºC at most. How fast the water can get into the sachet would be another limiting factor, you may not be able to fully hydrate all of the material in the sachet. You need a fast enough reaction rate to increase the temperature and compensate for losses to the surroundings. 20g should be plenty to get the water close to boiling and hold it there for a little while anyway especially if the container is insulated.

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JohnA
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Re: Flame-less cooking

Postby JohnA » Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:33 pm

Mark Sundin wrote:John, tell me you dont drink wee bags…?


No, Mark, I never drink the wee bag although I've had a couple of close shaves with the wee bottle :o

I will confess to having a wee dram in the evening, though, sometimes several :)

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Sean123
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Re: Flame-less cooking

Postby Sean123 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:28 pm

Can't be sure as they don't release information on what is used in the heat packets, but it has been suggested they are based on calcium oxide. When mixed with water produces heat and calcium hydroxide.
Looking at the kit itself, it appears your food is pretty well sealed tight in the metal container with no way for any of the resulting calcium hydroxide to reach it. I would guess it is best to allow the entire reaction to complete before removing the top lid.

Reviews around seem to be positive. My only concern is there doesn't seem to be any local retailers and I wouldn't want to be stuck ordering additional heat packs from amazon.com or directly from the UK based company.

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gnarlydog
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Re: Flame-less cooking

Postby gnarlydog » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:15 am

same concept, different brand: http://www.barocook.net/eng/
The system comes with "handy" cooking containers, however maybe a nesting set of pots could do the trick?
One could pour the powder out of the satchel, add some water and close the lid of the pot with the second pot (with food) inside the larger one.
To keep the heat contained and make the chemical reaction be more efficient enclosing the pots in some sort of insulation would work even better?
Sometimes to save fuel (on a long trip) I bring my food to the boil, take it off the stove and place a sleeping bag over the pot with lid to let the heated meal cook (slowly) till ready.
Hmm, maybe I should look into this and have the chemical satchels as back up for when I run out of fuel or stove malfunctions...


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