Thanks for accepting me

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Daytripper
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Re: Thanks for accepting me

Postby Daytripper » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:16 am

Weights: Epic 16X. Mine, with standard (heaviest) layup was advertised as 18 kg., plus or minus 10%. The Tiderace Pace 17 is advertised as 23.5 kg.

JustinC
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Re: Thanks for accepting me

Postby JustinC » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:51 am

Daytripper wrote:Getting back to the length issue, JustinC, if the Epic 18X was too long, and the 16X is too short, then one would surmise that a 17-foot boat would be Just Right.


Hi mate. Thanks for your interest.

I must have written it incorrectly. The 18X wasn't too long. If I go back down the super fast direction, I want to try something with lower volume.

I'd also like to try some Aussie boats. Finally, I'm in a great position to take my paddling in a new direction and I've never owned a bullet proof kayak in a more traditional shape, hence the Nadgee Solo making the list.

I'm glad your Epic ticks your boxes so well. My 18X was awesome as well. I liked it so much I paddled it to my wedding :) Had I not sold it when we moved out here I wouldn't be looking for a new boat but since I did, I'm going to try some others. I've paddled all the Epics except the most recent shorter skis - one of my best mates owns the local kayak shop and sells them ;) They're all good boats.

Anyway, thanks again.

JustinC
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Re: Thanks for accepting me

Postby JustinC » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:19 am

Rhysie wrote:Sounds like the "Goldilocks" boat may be a Tiderace Pace 17 Tour. Not too short (16') or too long (18') and a plumb bow.

Hi Rhysie,

The Pace is pretty awesome. One of my mates picked one up from EK a few years ago and paddles it everywhere. In fact, a love tap between his Pace 18 and my 18X was the first time I realised the cost of getting the lighter gauge boat :) Thankfully, another of my mates repairs kayaks and we got it fixed up.

I'm going to do a trip up to EK or check them out when they're next doing a demo in Canberra. They have their own Audax which I'm keen to try and then the Taran in the imports section. The same mate that has the Pace also owns a Nordkapp so I've tried that one too - want a great fit at the time but that was a while ago when I was more interested in racing so I'll borrow it again for a weekend or so.

As mentioned above, what I meant to say was I'm looking to try some lower volume boats, not necessarily shorter.

Cheers!

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NorthSIKer
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Re: Thanks for accepting me

Postby NorthSIKer » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:29 pm

I'm interested to know more about the plumb bow concept.

It is sold as of no penalty alternative which kinda makes sense. Like the raked bow is just carried through by tradition but for no other good reason on a modern boat. I have paddled with plumb bow Stealths and they got a real slap, slap, slap in the chop whereas I am quietly cutting through - but I suspect that was more the hull than the bow.

Is there any disadvantages to a plumb bow or situations / circumstances where a traditional raked bow is superior?

Daytripper
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Re: Thanks for accepting me

Postby Daytripper » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:52 am

I think John Dowd somewhere wrote that Inuit West Greenland kayaks had raked bows so that the kayak could be more easily drawn up onto the ice; otherwise there is no other advantage. The raked bow (and stern) make for a pretty-looking boat; that's for sure--my Epic 16X looked like the Ugly Duckling next to my friend's Caribou. Now he also has an Epic, so we both have fast, efficient Ugly Ducklings. These days, serious open-water racing monohull sailboats have absolutely plumb bows, and they're out in some nasty sea conditions. Both Epic's Greg Barton and designer John Winters (QCC and Swift Canoes and Kayaks) went pure hydrodynamics in designing their boats and came up with plumb bows and sterns. And look at today's surf skis--same deal.

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Mark Sundin
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Re: Thanks for accepting me

Postby Mark Sundin » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:07 am

The plumb bow is only a small part of the story, what really makes the difference is the subtle variations in volume in the section just aft of the bow, the shape of the V at that point, and the transition to a smooth planing shape thereafter.
Just whacking a plump bow in the front does not make a kayak suddenly take on the characteristics of a good, fast and seaworthy craft, however it's now very well established that maximising your waterline should give you you more glide for effort. And some of the myths about them are absolute myths, usually perpetrated by people who haven't paddled the modern designs. But.... the widely circulated video of an 18X against a Nordkapp in some head chop is very misleading too, so it cuts both ways.
Like anything, get out and try them....
Mark.

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NorthSIKer
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Re: Thanks for accepting me

Postby NorthSIKer » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:58 pm

Thanks Mark.

Yeah, I had seen that video and was not really convinced based on my experience. Much more to a boat's performance than just the angle of the bow.

Any disadvantages to a plumb bow (all else being equal, which I appreciate is not real world) other than difficulty landing on ice floes?

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Mark Sundin
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Re: Thanks for accepting me

Postby Mark Sundin » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:23 pm

Mate that's like asking if there any disadvantages to a traditional bow. All boats have slight variations which effect their handling etc, plumb bow or not. The advantage is a true waterline length, but that can be negated from a terminal hull speed perspective by a clunky hull design. The plumb bow is only a small part of the story, much more to consider when weighing up the type of kayak you want.
Last edited by Mark Sundin on Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

Boatsie
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Re: Thanks for accepting me

Postby Boatsie » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:50 am

A bit off topic. Years ago a mates old man bought a plumb bow yatch. Much more than the straight cut was the stern. Waterline without crew halted near the keel. As soon as she had crew aboard her waterline increased approximately 50% extra. Her advantage is an extremely short waterline when measured yet long when racing. Handicaps.
I like plumb bows because long waterlines rack in the same short shed. Lol.

Mac50L
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Re: Thanks for accepting me

Postby Mac50L » Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:14 pm

"Waterline without crew halted near the keel." - must have been a very low volume hull for that to happen. In yachting, rules were about maximum overall length allowed so to get the maximum waterline length, plumb ends.

With a kayak the raked bow gives lift as it heads into a wave. Getting the added above waterline volume right is a compromise between too much lift and punching straight through a wave. If you don't mind a wet boat then a plumb bow and little above waterline volume will suit.

A hollow cross-section bow gives lift later as the bow buries. The baidarkas being skinned used bifricated bows, the low volume lower part and the greater volume above the waterline and a small gap between them. Using any construction other than skin does away with the need for that style.


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