Two kayakers DIE

Let us know what happened so we can all be safer paddlers.
trakka
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Two kayakers DIE

Postby trakka » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:43 am


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Rhysie
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Re: Two kayakers DIE

Postby Rhysie » Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:56 pm

Trully sad. Hopefully the third kayaker recovers.

Mac50L
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Re: Two kayakers DIE

Postby Mac50L » Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:44 pm

35 mph wind and 3 foot waves isn't much. Paddled in much worse. So what happened? Did they have a forecast before leaving? How experienced were the group and did any know how to raft up and support each other? Do you know how to handle those conditions? Do you know what to do, if you know how to handle the conditions, how to help those who don't know? Do you know the skills of those you paddle with?

This is one of those "wake-up calls" that we need (or hope not to need) now and again - what would you do in a similar situation? Think about it, you never know when you might be in a simialr situation.

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Re: Two kayakers DIE

Postby StrangeMagic » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:06 pm

"35 mph winds and 3 foot waves isn't much. Paddled in much worse." I am in awe of paddlers who can post statements like this, and I try to imagine just what those much worse conditions are like--50 mph winds? 75 mph? 4 meter seas? Remember, we're not saying worse, we're saying much worse. Part of the reason people who should not be out on the water do go out when they shouldn't, and get into trouble, is because they have been led to believe that 35 mph winds and 3 foot waves isn't much--experienced kayakers have told them so.

Mac50L
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Re: Two kayakers DIE

Postby Mac50L » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:24 pm

StrangeMagic wrote:"35 mph winds and 3 foot waves isn't much. Paddled in much worse." I am in awe of paddlers who can post statements like this.


The wind picking up the surface of the water and hurling it down the sound. The double behind being bowled over. Or paddling in 2+ metre seas (that's way over your head). Trying to punch into a metre high sea, all with white caps and not getting anywhere because the wind is too strong. Yes, been there.

Actually it isn't the size of the seas it is the wind that gets you. It then comes down to the right kayak and gear and the skills to go with them. Note carefully - SKILL. Yes, an experienced paddler might not find certain conditions too difficult but we're talking SKILL levels.

Now if you really want someone who shrugs it off Tara Mulveney (26 year old) is the one to read about. Supposed to come in one day off the coast of the North Island while circumnavigating it, too rough so stayed at sea for 30 hours. A sort of "Ho hum" attitude to some of that by her and the rest of us sitting firmly ashore in such conditions..

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Mark Sundin
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Re: Two kayakers DIE

Postby Mark Sundin » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:38 pm

Really sorry to hear about these people losing their lives doing something we all love.

I don't think forums are the place for such silly chest beating, speculation and judgement, so soon after a tragedy like this.

Give it a rest guys, move safety discussions somewhere where friends and relatives of these guys won't stumble upon it one day.

Mark.

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Re: Two kayakers DIE

Postby StrangeMagic » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:37 pm

Mark, point taken. Such chest beating is always silly, and inappropriate here and now.

Mac50L
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Re: Two kayakers DIE

Postby Mac50L » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:17 am

I would take the opposite attitude to StrangMagic & Mark. An incident has happened, and no, you can't change it BUT do any of the events apply to you? Can lessons be learned? It is exactly the same with aircraft accidents, learn lessons and try to stop it happening again.

Learn lessons and try to stop it happening again. (Should I repeat that again?)

No "chest beating" (what ever you mean by that), just straight lessons and the sooner after an incident the better. Not "chest beating", incident analysis as applied to any accident. If there is speculation, so what, how does the analysis apply to your paddling or that of your friends?

Do you paddle with people, know people, who don't check for weather? Who paddle without an escape plan? Who don't keep thinking "What if?"

Can you teach them? Can you use actual incidents as examples to get the message across. Actual examples, not theoretical incidents.

I was actually surprised to find out that risk management, the "what if" had to be taught having myself applied it as a kid at sea but yes, more and more today it does need to be taught, especially with the closeted approach to danger society is applying to children.
Last edited by Mac50L on Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mark Sundin
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Re: Two kayakers DIE

Postby Mark Sundin » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:30 am

These are safety questions, and should be on a topic regarding safety, not linked to the tragic recent deaths of two people with friends, family & kids, on a public forum where their grief may one day be exacerbated by stumbling on this thread & seeing anonymous people being judgemental & critical, (which will definitely happen if you keep this going).

If you want to talk safety, open a new thread about safety & the issues you think may have contributed here, there's just no need to link this incident so soon after it happened.

Mark.

Mac50L
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Re: Two kayakers DIE

Postby Mac50L » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:32 pm

This section is titled -

"INCIDENTS-MISHAPS-ACCIDENTS - Let us know what happened so we can all be safer paddlers."

If that doesn't mean safety I don't know what does. There is no other section on safety, this is it.

Again it relates just as much to aircraft safety where analysis of what happens is done as fast as possible to learn the lesson and hopefully stop it happening again. The recent accident in the alps is a good example. Some might go as far as saying they died in vain because of the "let us not reason why it happened" attitude.

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Geoff
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Re: Two kayakers DIE

Postby Geoff » Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:08 am

Mac, listen to what is being said to you. LEAVE IT ALONE. You are being bloody callous by carrying on like this. Sometimes it's just better to be quiet, especially in the case of a tragedy.
Geoff


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