Kayaks for the bigger person

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Bruce D
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Re: Kayaks for the bigger person

Postby Bruce D » Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:20 pm

The earlier Southern Raider design (Canoe Sports / Rosco) or its clones is suitable for larger person,

There was plenty of room and leg length to suit most tall and heavier paddlers, with the rudder bars fully adjustable for all leg lengths. I loan my southern raider to a paddlers who were over 1.85 m in height and would have weight around 110 Kg. They have good primary stability.

Bruce D

Ent
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Re: Kayaks for the bigger person

Postby Ent » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:40 am

Martin B wrote:Ent, on the possibility of the German Prijon craft, I purchased a Kodiak as my first kayak but due the restricted travel time and purchase location, had to take it without a test paddle. I was aged 71 at the time, 1853 x 92kg with Oz size 10.5 feet and 2 synthetic hips.
To start with, everytime I looked around to see or find my wife ( 1550 x 65kg) in her new Prijon Touryak, I tipped the Kodiak over and fell out ! After week or so, swapped boats with SWMBO and tried the slighty shorter craft but same cockpit width, same length, same seat cockpit Touryak and immediately could look around to find her, no tilt, no falling over. The difference in primary stability was amazing despite the hull cross-section shapes being fairly similar.
Long story short, swapped my Kodiak for another Touryak. Probably would be enough leg room in a Touryak to move my foot pegs 100mm forward but could check for you if necessary.

An alternative is to build yourself a Yost fuselage Skin-on-Frame to suit your specific geometry. That's what I did and you would find Tom Yost extremely helpful in pointing you to the correct design and any modifications necessary to get more foot room or extra leg length.

Touryak about 25kg; Yost Sea Cruiser a mere 11 kg - a one hand lift and easy to get onto the top of the Kia Sportage 4WD.


Good to read that the statements on the stability of the Kodiak are confirmed. Find much the same in the Seabird Expedition HV and gradually understanding that hull design, along with length to beam ratio, has an affect on stability. Trouble is while in the 4.3M range you get good beam to length ratios this is not so much in the longer kayaks. While I can understand an experience paddler wanting speed, or efficiency through water, this is not such a concern for me. As I am looking for more expedition type exploring with everything including the kitchen sink packed hull volume is important. If I had the store space I would go with something like a Dagger Edisto for river exploring and day lake trips.

Anyway researching the kayaks mentioned and attempting to find local sellers as you mentioned buying on specifications without trying is dangerous. Just about every kayak seller and manufacturer claims stable and speed, so long given up believing their claims in this regard. You rarely see "you need to be born in a kayak to keep this sucker upright". And reviews by highly experienced paddlers with a long list of achievements rather useless as stability to them means something totally different to a mug paddler.

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gnarlydog
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Re: Kayaks for the bigger person

Postby gnarlydog » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:05 am

And reviews by highly experienced paddlers with a long list of achievements rather useless as stability to them means something totally different to a mug paddler.

too true: it does not mean squat for most paddlers.
I am yet to read a manufacturer's description that does not state stability and speed for their advertised kayak :-)
Sea Kayaker Magazine (no longer published) used to give exact objective measured figures for the kayaks they tested. It showed how much a kayak would heel (tip) to the side when a standard given amount of weight was applied. They were trying to express, in some kind of quantifiable measurement, how stable (or not) a kayak was.
Of course this only applies to calm waters, and there is more to stability than just millpond paddling.
A very wide kayak will be extremely stable in calm waters (think of a big flat platform) while things change when the waters become choppy.
At this stage it looks like you almost owe to yourself to test paddle your next sea kayak before you buy...

Bruce D
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Re: Kayaks for the bigger person

Postby Bruce D » Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:41 pm

gnarlydog wrote:Sea Kayaker Magazine (no longer published) used to give exact objective measured figures for the kayaks they tested. It showed how much a kayak would heel (tip) to the side when a standard given amount of weight was applied. They were trying to express, in some kind of quantifiable measurement, how stable (or not) a kayak was.
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Its called a heeling test, its used to measure the stability of a vessel, very important for ships in determining where and how much weight can be loaded, It also enables ships engineers to determine how much free-surface and its effect that may occur when liquids are loaded. The effect of free-surface also explains why a Kayak is more unstable when it has a cockpit full of water.


Bruce D

ADKpaddler
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Re: Kayaks for the bigger person

Postby ADKpaddler » Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:00 am

I'm 190cm and about 127kg / 20 stone (Shoes are size 49). Both the Tsunami 175 and and the Essence 17 fit me with room to spare leg and foot-wise. The slightly larger 175 cockpit is easier to get out of. When my weight went above 20 stone ,the Essence was less stable. The Tsunami seemed better for assisting others (T-rescue, etc) Scramble/cowboy-style or paddle float re-entry is possible in both kayaks although there seems to be a bit more buoyancy at the stern of the Tsunami.
The Essence is faster.
The optional rudder is recommended for use when paddling in strong cross winds on the Essence - the standard Confluence / Perception skeg is a bit small for this long. high volume craft. I use (Seadog) gas pedal rudder controls in both kayaks

magooch
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Re: Kayaks for the bigger person

Postby magooch » Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:47 am

I haven't converted your stats to something that computes (I'm old school American), but I just noticed a boat built in New Zealand that might interest you. It is the Cobra Expedition. It should be fast and it is light for its size. It is a sot, but somewhat on the order of a surf ski, but wider and it should be pretty stable. The price seemed very competitive.

Ilean2
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Re: Kayaks for the bigger person

Postby Ilean2 » Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:14 am

Hey ENT
I can relate 6'2 114 and an amputee there just doesn't seem to be too much stuff out there for the average sized guy like us and I have the added bonus of being an leg amputee. I have read the comments here and find it all very helpful I have a Dagger Exodus 1610 and it seem twitchy but has heaps of length in the cockpit and I haven't fallen out yet. It twitches but then seems to stop and move well once going the thigh braces seem to be low though or I have large thighs which restricts movement a lot. I am relatively new to this type of yak myself so I am not going to give any impressions just thought I would let you know how I find my Dagger. Cheaper and reasonably good I think maybe you could try one of these out for room.
Cheers from Ilean2

haresfur
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Re: Kayaks for the bigger person

Postby haresfur » Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:47 pm

Ilean2 wrote:Hey ENT
I can relate 6'2 114 and an amputee there just doesn't seem to be too much stuff out there for the average sized guy like us and I have the added bonus of being an leg amputee. I have read the comments here and find it all very helpful I have a Dagger Exodus 1610 and it seem twitchy but has heaps of length in the cockpit and I haven't fallen out yet. It twitches but then seems to stop and move well once going the thigh braces seem to be low though or I have large thighs which restricts movement a lot. I am relatively new to this type of yak myself so I am not going to give any impressions just thought I would let you know how I find my Dagger. Cheaper and reasonably good I think maybe you could try one of these out for room.
Cheers from Ilean2


It is useful IMO to understand about primary and secondary stablility when considering what will work for you. In case you or others don't know, what you describe sounds like a pretty classic case of high secondary stability with relatively low primary. The kayak doesn't like to sit flat on the water but when it starts to heel over, the hull tends to resist further lean (until the point where you end up underwater :lol: ). A lot of secondary is more secure in rougher water once you get used to it. The key is to keep your body upright and not worry too much about the twitching down below. Understanding this can help evaluate kayaks before purchase.

I don't know if there is enough of your amputated leg to engage the thigh braces but any way you can figure out to control the edging is good. For big blokes the other issue is being top heavy. That will make the kayak less stable. Options to compensate are adding ballast to keep the weight lower or preferably if it is possible, lower the seat. If there isn't much room for your thunder-thighs, this would help. Every cm makes a difference. Check into minicel foam kayak seats - Redfish Kayaks in the US sells them or you can carve your own. It's really about figuring out what works for your body and your paddling conditions/goals. Hope this helps.

Mulga
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Re: Kayaks for the bigger person

Postby Mulga » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:19 am

I'm 187cm and 110kg and my mate Josh is taller, by a good bit and just as heavy. The Nadgee Solo is our choice; the cockpit is excellent.

Garry Coates
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Re: Kayaks for the bigger person

Postby Garry Coates » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:24 pm

Hi, I just want to say what a fantastic forum topic this is for somebody like me (196cm tall, weigh 115+kgs) dipping his toe in the water for a sea kayak. I am working my way through the recommendations and evaluating them against the sea kayaks I have tried to date. This information has been far better than anything I have told in the shops who just want to sell you what they have in the showroom.

Currently I have found three possibles based on bum in the seat then legs approach. Certainly interested in any current developments.

Regards
Garry

Boatsie
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Re: Kayaks for the bigger person

Postby Boatsie » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:57 am

Hi Ent,
I'm about 2 weeks away from obtaining a Nadgee Wanderer. I'm 193cm at 96 kg.
Nearly steered away from Nadgee having read a review yet later discovered reviewer meant obese rather than big.
My old 1963 unknown manufacturer is a really nice 'yak, approx 4.5m by 65cm and handles obese and big easily yet no storage. A fair paced day sea white water or flat calm 'yak.
Hope that assists.
Getting wet soon

Garry Coates
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Re: Kayaks for the bigger person

Postby Garry Coates » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:22 am

Hi Boatsie,
thanks for the update. Nadgee kayaks are out of my price range at the moment. My first step has to be pragamatic and useable for a few years. The great thing about having older kayaks, motorcycles etc is you don't feely guilty if they sit unused for awhile while you are elsewhere.

I note you have had otiums. What where they like for the bigger guy? I would like to try/sit-in an otium 2 but they about a 1000k away in Sydney.

Regards
Garry

Boatsie
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Re: Kayaks for the bigger person

Postby Boatsie » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:01 am

Hi Garry,
I like them, not as much room nor the pace of the slightly shorter old girl mentioned above. Pick them up $100 give or take.
Otiums we used about 3 hour tops per seat. Although relatively nice and easy, foot pegs aren't sturdy and kick strength greatly reduced.
I haven't much knowledge to compare other boats.
Sydney boat above looks awesome, I belief that'll be heaps more comfy than an Otium and easy on maintenance too.
Nathan

Garry Coates
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Re: Kayaks for the bigger person

Postby Garry Coates » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:07 am

Hi all,
an update for the bigger person:
1. Point 65 XO17 fits me without modification (196 cm, 115kgs)
2. Tsunami 175 requires seat to be moved back 5 cm for rudder pedals to align (simple fix - drill 2 holes)

I bought the the XO as the deal was too good to pass and I like composites.

Regards
Garry


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