College Student designing Kayak satnav

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Payne1999
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College Student designing Kayak satnav

Postby Payne1999 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:11 pm

Hello,
I am a college student from the UK. I'm currently in the process of designing a kayak navigation system. (THIS IS NOT FOR COMMERCIAL PURPOSES!)
I would be very grateful if you could follow my questionnaire link. Thanks!
Tim

https://goo.gl/forms/KwnunqHyWvEQ7lEt2

cheaterparts
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Re: College Student designing Kayak satnav

Postby cheaterparts » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:45 pm

Payne1999 wrote:Hello,
I am a college student from the UK. I'm currently in the process of designing a kayak navigation system.
Tim


bit hard with yes no answers Tim

What type of kayak do you paddle? (If more than one the kayak you paddle the most)

fishing kayaks - a shorter 4.3 meter one for the bays and a 5.25 meter fishing ski for off shore and long distances

On average how long do you spend in a kayak at a time?

8 - 10 hours fishing the bays and 6 - 8 hours off shore depending on weather and distances

On kayak expeditions over night is mains electricity usually available?

I may fish through the night but dont do over night expeditions so not applicable

Would an additional weight be acceptable to ensure you knew where you were going?

Hopefully I know where I'm going at all times - already use a GSP with charts - Navionics on my phone in a dry cover and a compass

(IF YES TO THE ABOVE QUESTION) How much additional weight would be acceptable to carry?

always as little extra as possible

What conditions would you deem acceptable to paddle in? (YOU CAN SELECT MORE THAN ONE)

again a hard question depends on direction , against tide flow or not but will fish at anchor up to 10 knot comfortably and paddle trolling lures in 15 knot over that it starts getting hard to fish so time for home

What river grade would you deem acceptable to paddle in? (YOU CAN SELECT MORE THAN ONE)

don't paddle in rivers as a rule but am quite happy to surf launch for an off shore paddle

On average how much would you be willing to purchase a navigation device for?

I think my GPS run around $ 450 new these days

Would the ability to listen to music while paddling be a benefit to you?

No

Would the ability to film your journey be something you would be interested in?

no not really

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Re: College Student designing Kayak satnav

Postby Mac50L » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:21 am

Sea kayakers could possible be in two groups. Those who paddle to go somewhere and those who paddle to go fishing. For the latter, a fish finder would be more important than a navigation system.

The problem with a navigation system is power. If on a multiday trip there will be no power though some take solar cells if they really insist on running phones, cameras etc.

A paper map weighs nothing. It doesn't fail due to batteries going flat. They are easy to read and can cover a far greater area if spread over the fore-deck. Easier to see than a small screen in bright sunlight.

Paper can be more up-to-date than an electronic systems. This mainly applies to vehicles where you'd be lucky to have anything better than 5 years old (Subaru is an example - rubbish navigation system).

Far more useful is a VHF radio for weather reports and emergencies.

Very few sea kayakers would paddle rivers though those that do would usually be on a big one, no or a few small rapids.

Conditions to paddle in didn't work for more than one, you can't select more than one though you say you can.

I don't know why one would go for a navigation-only device when phones do it so well and can be used for emergency communication as well.

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Re: College Student designing Kayak satnav

Postby cheaterparts » Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:03 pm

Mac50L wrote:Sea kayakers could possible be in two groups. Those who paddle to go somewhere and those who paddle to go fishing. For the latter, a fish finder would be more important than a navigation system.

The problem with a navigation system is power. If on a multiday trip there will be no power though some take solar cells if they really insist on running phones, cameras etc.

A paper map weighs nothing. It doesn't fail due to batteries going flat. They are easy to read and can cover a far greater area if spread over the fore-deck. Easier to see than a small screen in bright sunlight.

Paper can be more up-to-date than an electronic systems. This mainly applies to vehicles where you'd be lucky to have anything better than 5 years old (Subaru is an example - rubbish navigation system).

Far more useful is a VHF radio for weather reports and emergencies.

I don't know why one would go for a navigation-only device when phones do it so well and can be used for emergency communication as well.


really with batteries these days with Li-ion power is becoming less of a problem - locally there are kayak friendly units available ie 12 v 7 ah that weigh 455 gram and 110 mm x 80 mm x 50 mm or 12 v 17.5 ah than weigh 915 gram and 130 x 80 x 70 both IP67 rated
that both pretty compact and light for this much power storage

that would run my sounder and or nav lights for quite some time as the sounder draws around 200 ma and my nav light about the same - as for my Garmin GPS that easy goes 8 hours on 2 - AA batteries ( quite easy to take spares )

as for a fish finder being more important than a navigation system to a fishing kayaker that is a bit of yes and no - if fishing wider on an off shore reef ( that could easy be 15 km out in Bass Straight for me ) and conditions dropped off - I think navigation would be fairly high on my list
while using navionics on the phone sounds good it does use up a phone battery fairly quickly - also fishing off shore even with others you maybe be spread out kms apart ( it's not like a sea kayaking group that stay in contact with each other)

I agree that the VHS is more than use full -

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Re: College Student designing Kayak satnav

Postby NorthSIKer » Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:38 pm

I just filled in your survey.

I use both a fish finder and a GPS (both Garmins). The GPS is a Garmin etrex - i prefer the light weight as I also use it walking. However for purely kayaking weight is of minimal practical consequence - although lighter is always nicer if all else is equal. I also like having the GPS separate to the fishfinder for redundancy purposes (i.e. fish finder is more likely to fail).

The eTrex gets up to 3 days on a pair of rechargeable AA batteries - it is simple to carry some extras to swap over in the evening for the rest of the trip. Never kayak camped at a campsite with any form of power. I wouldn't ever use my phone for navigation - uses too much power, needs a good waterproof case, hard to recharge plus I want it safe under the hull in case I need it at camp for an emergency (though many of the camps up here have no reception).

Good to have navigation on the kayak as it makes for efficient routes on distance paddles and great when landmarks are all covered up by rain.

Fish finder is much less value than a navigation device for fishing, although a fish finder is nice. One thing I have really come to enjoy on the fish finder is watching the 'terrain' that I am passing over out on the ocean.

I think you will find the almost all sea kayakers regularly do full days on the water - so 8-12 hr operating time at a minimum is required (and more is better).

Good luck with the research!

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Re: College Student designing Kayak satnav

Postby Boatsie » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:37 pm

I agree with NorthSiKer although I use no electronics. Maybe a phone photo in calm.
Lithium batteries used to be high hazard in salt water, I haven't done electrical/electronic engineering for 11 years but back then I found it marvelous how kayakers would place potential bombs near their own seat. Potentially about 2 years from owning electronics, I would prefer internal or flip out to provide 12 hrs use housed inside a lightweight sturdy waterproof mountable case. Small lithium with recharge circuit would be ideal to open up dry storage and recharge from a secure 12 volt bank. Eg USB without time constraints.
Wish you well.

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Re: College Student designing Kayak satnav

Postby Noalim01 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:11 am

Boatsie wrote:I agree with NorthSiKer although I use no electronics. Maybe a phone photo in calm.
Lithium batteries used to be high hazard in salt water, I haven't done electrical/electronic engineering for 11 years but back then I found it marvelous how kayakers would place potential bombs near their own seat. obtenir prêt Potentially about 2 years from owning electronics, I would prefer internal or flip out to provide 12 hrs use housed inside a lightweight sturdy waterproof mountable case. Small lithium with recharge circuit would be ideal to open up dry storage and recharge from a secure 12 volt bank. Eg USB without time constraints.
Wish you well.

me too i agree with him

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Re: College Student designing Kayak satnav

Postby gbc » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:22 pm

NorthSIKer wrote:I just filled in your survey.

I use both a fish finder and a GPS (both Garmins). The GPS is a Garmin etrex - i prefer the light weight as I also use it walking. However for purely kayaking weight is of minimal practical consequence - although lighter is always nicer if all else is equal. I also like having the GPS separate to the fishfinder for redundancy purposes (i.e. fish finder is more likely to fail).

The eTrex gets up to 3 days on a pair of rechargeable AA batteries - it is simple to carry some extras to swap over in the evening for the rest of the trip. Never kayak camped at a campsite with any form of power. I wouldn't ever use my phone for navigation - uses too much power, needs a good waterproof case, hard to recharge plus I want it safe under the hull in case I need it at camp for an emergency (though many of the camps up here have no reception).

Good to have navigation on the kayak as it makes for efficient routes on distance paddles and great when landmarks are all covered up by rain.

Fish finder is much less value than a navigation device for fishing, although a fish finder is nice. One thing I have really come to enjoy on the fish finder is watching the 'terrain' that I am passing over out on the ocean.

I think you will find the almost all sea kayakers regularly do full days on the water - so 8-12 hr operating time at a minimum is required (and more is better).

Good luck with the research!


I'm similar.

It is much harder to recharge a phone than it is to change out a couple of aa's. My gps of choice is a garmin gpsmap 78sc. It floats and is waterproof and leaves phones away from the action where I have killed a few over the years. On battery save mode it will run over numerous paddling days before needing a battery change.


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